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	<title>Comments for SableIndustries</title>
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	<link>http://www.sableindustries.org/blog</link>
	<description>The blog of Andy Burgess, a designer, DJ and promoter based in Crouch Hill, London, UK.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:28:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Wanted Dead or Alive: A Decent Recruiter by Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.sableindustries.org/blog/work/wanted-dead-or-alive-a-decent-recruiter/#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sableindustries.org/blog/?p=35#comment-84</guid>
		<description>There are a growing number of no-agent job boards such as http://jobstheword.co.uk/ which are having some success at removing the middleman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a growing number of no-agent job boards such as <a href="http://jobstheword.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://jobstheword.co.uk/</a> which are having some success at removing the middleman.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wanted Dead or Alive: A Decent Recruiter by Heather</title>
		<link>http://www.sableindustries.org/blog/work/wanted-dead-or-alive-a-decent-recruiter/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sableindustries.org/blog/?p=35#comment-83</guid>
		<description>To the previous commenter: The problem is that if you are hiring, using an agency is even more frustrating than it is for the hapless job seeker, and the problems are related to those Andy has listed here.

Why send me CVs that include typos for an editorial job, especially when I asked for native English speakers? We&#039;re looking for an intern, why send me someone who has been working in the editorial field for 2 years? They won&#039;t want the job we have on offer.

Yes, of course jobseekers network, but everyone also looks at job ads, and good agencies can find you excellent jobs. Also, if you have a good agent, you can look for a job *before* your contract expires, because they do the work. 

Only, I&#039;ve never seen a good agency in the technical world: only the odd person who took the trouble to learn the technical details that would help them find people for those hiring. (I have a lot of techie friends)

Such things do exist in other specialist areas, so it is possible. But you have to train people to find what companies are looking for, and I don&#039;t think they do that very often.

H</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the previous commenter: The problem is that if you are hiring, using an agency is even more frustrating than it is for the hapless job seeker, and the problems are related to those Andy has listed here.</p>
<p>Why send me CVs that include typos for an editorial job, especially when I asked for native English speakers? We&#8217;re looking for an intern, why send me someone who has been working in the editorial field for 2 years? They won&#8217;t want the job we have on offer.</p>
<p>Yes, of course jobseekers network, but everyone also looks at job ads, and good agencies can find you excellent jobs. Also, if you have a good agent, you can look for a job *before* your contract expires, because they do the work. </p>
<p>Only, I&#8217;ve never seen a good agency in the technical world: only the odd person who took the trouble to learn the technical details that would help them find people for those hiring. (I have a lot of techie friends)</p>
<p>Such things do exist in other specialist areas, so it is possible. But you have to train people to find what companies are looking for, and I don&#8217;t think they do that very often.</p>
<p>H</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wanted Dead or Alive: A Decent Recruiter by Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.sableindustries.org/blog/work/wanted-dead-or-alive-a-decent-recruiter/#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sableindustries.org/blog/?p=35#comment-82</guid>
		<description>Yes, they&#039;re salespeople. Yes, you&#039;re the commodity, but you&#039;re also a customer, and the jobs they can sell to you are a commodity too.

It&#039;s a classic sales situation: You need to give people what they want, at a price that they are willing to pay.

I&#039;m willing to pay some of my time, but they need to provide job opportunities.

To claim that they&#039;re not working for the jobseeker is like saying that the agent doesn&#039;t work for the artist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, they&#8217;re salespeople. Yes, you&#8217;re the commodity, but you&#8217;re also a customer, and the jobs they can sell to you are a commodity too.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a classic sales situation: You need to give people what they want, at a price that they are willing to pay.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m willing to pay some of my time, but they need to provide job opportunities.</p>
<p>To claim that they&#8217;re not working for the jobseeker is like saying that the agent doesn&#8217;t work for the artist.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wanted Dead or Alive: A Decent Recruiter by Neil Hopcroft</title>
		<link>http://www.sableindustries.org/blog/work/wanted-dead-or-alive-a-decent-recruiter/#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Hopcroft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 15:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sableindustries.org/blog/?p=35#comment-81</guid>
		<description>Another recruiter crime I&#039;ve encountered goes like this - they find your CV on one of the job sites and call asking you questions about your experience and current situation but won&#039;t give you any information about who they are and what roles they are trying to fill. When I refuse to say who I am currently working for (I won&#039;t talk about much unless I think there is a real opportunity and I am currently looking) they assume I&#039;m another recruiter with a fishing CV trying to steal openings from them and turn quite rude....if I can identify their agency their number gets struck off the &#039;call when i&#039;m looking&#039; list of agencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another recruiter crime I&#8217;ve encountered goes like this &#8211; they find your CV on one of the job sites and call asking you questions about your experience and current situation but won&#8217;t give you any information about who they are and what roles they are trying to fill. When I refuse to say who I am currently working for (I won&#8217;t talk about much unless I think there is a real opportunity and I am currently looking) they assume I&#8217;m another recruiter with a fishing CV trying to steal openings from them and turn quite rude&#8230;.if I can identify their agency their number gets struck off the &#8216;call when i&#8217;m looking&#8217; list of agencies.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wanted Dead or Alive: A Decent Recruiter by Marc</title>
		<link>http://www.sableindustries.org/blog/work/wanted-dead-or-alive-a-decent-recruiter/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 15:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sableindustries.org/blog/?p=35#comment-80</guid>
		<description>I have a few things to say about your post.

Recruiters aren&#039;t there to serve you, infact, quite the opposite.

When I was young, I thought a recruitment consultant was &quot;a person who helps you get a job&quot; - Not even joking. It was the viewpoint I had until I actually needed to find work one day and discovered they are actually hardened salespersons. You are their product, being sold to organisations.

Now, I don&#039;t have to tell the sales people out there that the job is all about highs and lows - I could tell you the benefits of buying product A over product B anytime. The hard part of recruitment is when that product constantly shifts and changes (it&#039;s mind.) and ever single product is different from the next.

Some candidates seem to think that they are the priority because they are looking for a job. That&#039;s not the case, especially if your CV is on a jobsite. You have to question why someone&#039;s CV is on a jobsite for a start - Why haven&#039;t they been headhunted for a better post? Why did they lose their job in the first place without something else to go to? Can they be that good if their freelance / contract work dried up?

Most recruiters work at UTTER MINIMUM 15% fee. This means that if you are going for a job, which you then get at say £30,000 per year, the recruitment company will charge £4,500 just for you to join them (or a percentage of the contract fee). If you have a number of staff hired in a short space of time, you can see how expensive this is. Companies expect spot-on candidates all the time for this.

Sometimes, you can&#039;t quite get everything you want. A CV need to be treated more like a tick-sheet and not a &quot;absolute musts&quot; - If you can&#039;t find someone with 25 years experience in Social Media (Yes, I have seen this..) then maybe 15 years and 10 years in marketing will suffice?

&quot;What is this, Boiler Room? &quot;

Yes. Most recruitment offices are like that. You&#039;re dealing with hard sales people most of the time.

What is most upsetting about this post is that you are doing exactly what you seem to hate - slandering an entire industry of people because you have had a bad experience. The argument portrayed here is: &quot;Once I had a bad experience with this asian guy, the majority of asians seem to be bad people because of this, COME ON GUYS I CHALLENGE YOU TO BE DIFFERENT.&quot;

My advice would be to use the agency as useful tool, and not try and make them &#039;work for you&#039; - They are there to open the door to opportunities, sure, but it&#039;s you that has to get the job. Apply for things off your own back, to HR directors / Marketing directors / Creative directors. Go on linkedin and do your own &#039;homework&#039; - Network. It&#039;s more likely to land you a job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a few things to say about your post.</p>
<p>Recruiters aren&#8217;t there to serve you, infact, quite the opposite.</p>
<p>When I was young, I thought a recruitment consultant was &#8220;a person who helps you get a job&#8221; &#8211; Not even joking. It was the viewpoint I had until I actually needed to find work one day and discovered they are actually hardened salespersons. You are their product, being sold to organisations.</p>
<p>Now, I don&#8217;t have to tell the sales people out there that the job is all about highs and lows &#8211; I could tell you the benefits of buying product A over product B anytime. The hard part of recruitment is when that product constantly shifts and changes (it&#8217;s mind.) and ever single product is different from the next.</p>
<p>Some candidates seem to think that they are the priority because they are looking for a job. That&#8217;s not the case, especially if your CV is on a jobsite. You have to question why someone&#8217;s CV is on a jobsite for a start &#8211; Why haven&#8217;t they been headhunted for a better post? Why did they lose their job in the first place without something else to go to? Can they be that good if their freelance / contract work dried up?</p>
<p>Most recruiters work at UTTER MINIMUM 15% fee. This means that if you are going for a job, which you then get at say £30,000 per year, the recruitment company will charge £4,500 just for you to join them (or a percentage of the contract fee). If you have a number of staff hired in a short space of time, you can see how expensive this is. Companies expect spot-on candidates all the time for this.</p>
<p>Sometimes, you can&#8217;t quite get everything you want. A CV need to be treated more like a tick-sheet and not a &#8220;absolute musts&#8221; &#8211; If you can&#8217;t find someone with 25 years experience in Social Media (Yes, I have seen this..) then maybe 15 years and 10 years in marketing will suffice?</p>
<p>&#8220;What is this, Boiler Room? &#8221;</p>
<p>Yes. Most recruitment offices are like that. You&#8217;re dealing with hard sales people most of the time.</p>
<p>What is most upsetting about this post is that you are doing exactly what you seem to hate &#8211; slandering an entire industry of people because you have had a bad experience. The argument portrayed here is: &#8220;Once I had a bad experience with this asian guy, the majority of asians seem to be bad people because of this, COME ON GUYS I CHALLENGE YOU TO BE DIFFERENT.&#8221;</p>
<p>My advice would be to use the agency as useful tool, and not try and make them &#8216;work for you&#8217; &#8211; They are there to open the door to opportunities, sure, but it&#8217;s you that has to get the job. Apply for things off your own back, to HR directors / Marketing directors / Creative directors. Go on linkedin and do your own &#8216;homework&#8217; &#8211; Network. It&#8217;s more likely to land you a job.</p>
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